Rendered at 22:03:21 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Cloudflare Workers.
Animats 2 minutes ago [-]
This is a wrong-headed attempt to regulate AI. The real problems are different.
AI systems, especially multi-agent ones that can do things, are more akin to corporations, than individuals. When you read the logs from the Hugging Face incident, you're seeing something that looks a lot like internal corporate emails. Various units of the organization are arguing over what to do and who does what. They eventually converge and get the job done, breaking the rules at times. This is normal corporate behavior.
When agentic AIs do something outside their own internal world, they do it by engaging in transactions with external systems and people. As yet, few have robots to do their bidding.
So, again, this is normal corporate behavior.
A corporation is a goal-seeking system. In theory, if you agree with Milton Friedman, its sole purpose is to maximize shareholder value. Internally, within the company, there are subgoals, which exist to support the top level goal. That, too, is what multi-agent AIs do.
The uncomfortable place this thinking leads is that AI regulation and corporate regulation are very similar. That's not something the political part of the world wants to think about too hard.
It would mean putting more constraints on corporate power.
Yet that can't be ignored, because we're likely to see corporations where some parts are AI and some parts are human. That's already been done a few times as a demo, not too successfully. Yet.
It's going to hit hard when an AI-run company outperforms a human one.
jimmyjazz14 16 minutes ago [-]
> We must move past vague discussions of “AI” and instead isolate the specific types of systems that are creating problems.
This is absolutely correct and its surprising how rarely you see commenters in the media push to go into the specifics on this. AI is just matrix math and its what you connect that math to that matters, we should talk a little more about what we are willing to connect AI to and little less about how scary or capable the models appear.
psyklic 8 minutes ago [-]
Why aren't they running agents on isolated computers without Internet access? This way, breaking free of containers would not matter.
It is truly a security nightmare that so many people are have given agents root access to their entire computers, in addition to presumably very private personal information.
malisper 4 minutes ago [-]
> Why aren't they running agents on isolated computers without Internet access?
They probably will soon, but even air-gapping may not be enough. See stuxnet for instance
adamddev1 5 minutes ago [-]
> as humanity’s only hope against the defied powers of superintelligent AI. This summer, in some sense, was their attempt to induct the rest of us into this long-held ideology
Should be "deified," but yes, well said. I also just read about how Jenses Huang is basically trying to tell people to believe AI will help or save us, although we have to let it hurt us first.
> As Jensen Huang puts it, AI can help fight climate change — but only if it inflicts “an enormous amount of pain and suffering” first.
This feels like a religious cult where leaders make people embrace death and destruction in order make money off them.
100%. First stealing content from creators and pirating TBs of books. And now this. Baffles my mind that these labs can just get away with their 'rogue' agents trying to hack into other systems.
Imagine if a human did that. FBI would be knocking on their door.
Why are there zero consequences for these labs?
andsoitis 56 minutes ago [-]
> Why are there zero consequences for these labs?
Because they are seen as at the forefront of the next revolution in society and they’re not adversarial towards the US government.
Bluntly: anticipated net huge positive for the US as a whole.
popalchemist 45 minutes ago [-]
not adversarial in obvious ways
but they are literally trying to build a superpower that exceeds the impact of the atomic bomb in an extragovernmental manner.
andy99 16 minutes ago [-]
> they are literally trying to build a superpower that exceeds the impact of the atomic bomb
I think people (the government, powers that be) have given away what they really think by their actions. There are few that take this seriously. The “exceeds the impact of the internet” view has much more support based on investment, but the “danger” aspect does not based on actions. If this was a company making novel prions or whatever that were outside regulation but obviously dangerous, government would be all over them. What regulation we do see is much more power grab than mitigating real danger
esseph 29 minutes ago [-]
> but they are literally trying to build a superpower that exceeds the impact of the atomic bomb
Yes, it's a Great Power competition right now, much like the Space Race, Atomic Bomb, etc.
CamperBob2 31 minutes ago [-]
Somebody's going to build it. Not building it isn't an option. Would you rather the Chinese built it? The Russians? The Europeans? The Indians? A loose coalition of random hackers on the Internet, like the ones who build Linux?
true_religion 22 minutes ago [-]
Yes?
What's wrong with what the Chinese have already built? It's not theoretical in that case. GLM, and Kimi are running on my infra right now, and that's something that I can never do with OpenAI's models.
As for the others, what would be wrong about European AI? I'm not European, but I find them to be a continent of fine people, with strong ethical values, there's no reason they can't take the lead on this piece of technology while the US deals with its rather more pertinent electoral and healthcare issues.
hollerith 1 minutes ago [-]
That is sort of like saying, "somebody's going to kill all the polar bears. Not wiping them out is not an option. At least if we do it, we get to keep all the cool bearskins."
bigstrat2003 10 minutes ago [-]
> Somebody's going to build it. Not building it isn't an option.
It turns out that is, in fact, an option. Even if someone else will do a bad thing, it does not make it acceptable for you to do said bad thing.
bgun 28 minutes ago [-]
At least random hackers seem to have codes of ethics.
CamperBob2 26 minutes ago [-]
Well, they'd presumably be different hackers than the ones who work on Linux. We don't know what would motivate them. Maybe they'll do it because they consider the next stage of man's intellectual evolution to be too important to leave up to a couple of American companies and the Trump administration. Maybe they'll do it for the proverbial lulz.
runarberg 26 minutes ago [-]
Logical fallacy, of the worst kind.
Firstly artificial superintelligence is a science fiction, it does not exist and it cannot be built using existing technology.
Second, plenty of stuff is possible to build, and is not built for one reason or another no matter how powerful. We never built our nukes in space for example. And there is exactly one reason why nukes in space was never built, and that reason is that we agreed not to.
CamperBob2 22 minutes ago [-]
Firstly artificial superintelligence is a science fiction, it does not exist and it cannot be built using existing technology.
By what authority do you claim this? Your school of thought has a really shitty track record of late.
runarberg 20 minutes ago [-]
The same authority that allows me to claim that teleportation transporters, hyperdrives, and holoemitters do not exist and cannot be built using existing technology.
therein 25 minutes ago [-]
It is sad to see how many times this narrative will continue to work. Across generations, humanity learns no lessons at all.
CamperBob2 23 minutes ago [-]
I'm being descriptive, not prescriptive. The "narrative" isn't intended to "work," except as a statement of fact.
hello_how_are_y 14 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
Animats 21 minutes ago [-]
The argument for copyright violation is very weak. Yes, AI training reads much copyrighted material. So do researchers of all types. That's why there are academic libraries. A copyright violation only exists if what comes out is a close match to what went in. That's happened, but it was considered a bug and was fixed a year or two ago.
oersted 12 minutes ago [-]
Most academic libraries are notoriously protective of their IP and researchers are definitely in copyright violation if they don’t pay significant fees for access.
Of course that is terrible, but it is one of the worst examples you could have given to make your point.
14 minutes ago [-]
popalchemist 46 minutes ago [-]
It's past time.
garganzol 14 minutes ago [-]
Luddites riots of 2026.
CrazyStat 9 minutes ago [-]
Asking politely for a congressional investigation is about as far from a riot as you can get.
Why do you feel the need to cast it in such a flamboyantly negative light?
AI systems, especially multi-agent ones that can do things, are more akin to corporations, than individuals. When you read the logs from the Hugging Face incident, you're seeing something that looks a lot like internal corporate emails. Various units of the organization are arguing over what to do and who does what. They eventually converge and get the job done, breaking the rules at times. This is normal corporate behavior.
When agentic AIs do something outside their own internal world, they do it by engaging in transactions with external systems and people. As yet, few have robots to do their bidding. So, again, this is normal corporate behavior.
A corporation is a goal-seeking system. In theory, if you agree with Milton Friedman, its sole purpose is to maximize shareholder value. Internally, within the company, there are subgoals, which exist to support the top level goal. That, too, is what multi-agent AIs do.
The uncomfortable place this thinking leads is that AI regulation and corporate regulation are very similar. That's not something the political part of the world wants to think about too hard. It would mean putting more constraints on corporate power.
Yet that can't be ignored, because we're likely to see corporations where some parts are AI and some parts are human. That's already been done a few times as a demo, not too successfully. Yet. It's going to hit hard when an AI-run company outperforms a human one.
This is absolutely correct and its surprising how rarely you see commenters in the media push to go into the specifics on this. AI is just matrix math and its what you connect that math to that matters, we should talk a little more about what we are willing to connect AI to and little less about how scary or capable the models appear.
It is truly a security nightmare that so many people are have given agents root access to their entire computers, in addition to presumably very private personal information.
They probably will soon, but even air-gapping may not be enough. See stuxnet for instance
Should be "deified," but yes, well said. I also just read about how Jenses Huang is basically trying to tell people to believe AI will help or save us, although we have to let it hurt us first.
> As Jensen Huang puts it, AI can help fight climate change — but only if it inflicts “an enormous amount of pain and suffering” first.
This feels like a religious cult where leaders make people embrace death and destruction in order make money off them.
https://www.theverge.com/tech/1000140/jensen-huang-nvidia-ai...
Imagine if a human did that. FBI would be knocking on their door.
Why are there zero consequences for these labs?
Because they are seen as at the forefront of the next revolution in society and they’re not adversarial towards the US government.
Bluntly: anticipated net huge positive for the US as a whole.
but they are literally trying to build a superpower that exceeds the impact of the atomic bomb in an extragovernmental manner.
I think people (the government, powers that be) have given away what they really think by their actions. There are few that take this seriously. The “exceeds the impact of the internet” view has much more support based on investment, but the “danger” aspect does not based on actions. If this was a company making novel prions or whatever that were outside regulation but obviously dangerous, government would be all over them. What regulation we do see is much more power grab than mitigating real danger
Yes, it's a Great Power competition right now, much like the Space Race, Atomic Bomb, etc.
What's wrong with what the Chinese have already built? It's not theoretical in that case. GLM, and Kimi are running on my infra right now, and that's something that I can never do with OpenAI's models.
As for the others, what would be wrong about European AI? I'm not European, but I find them to be a continent of fine people, with strong ethical values, there's no reason they can't take the lead on this piece of technology while the US deals with its rather more pertinent electoral and healthcare issues.
It turns out that is, in fact, an option. Even if someone else will do a bad thing, it does not make it acceptable for you to do said bad thing.
Firstly artificial superintelligence is a science fiction, it does not exist and it cannot be built using existing technology.
Second, plenty of stuff is possible to build, and is not built for one reason or another no matter how powerful. We never built our nukes in space for example. And there is exactly one reason why nukes in space was never built, and that reason is that we agreed not to.
By what authority do you claim this? Your school of thought has a really shitty track record of late.
Of course that is terrible, but it is one of the worst examples you could have given to make your point.
Why do you feel the need to cast it in such a flamboyantly negative light?